The Lee-Enfield No. 5 Mk. I 'Jungle Carbine'
By David Tong
Magazine Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk I rifle. The new carbine was intended for. The nickname “Jungle Carbine” seems to. The bolt serial numbers always. Lee Enfield No5 Mk1 ( Jungle Carbine ). As the moderator of the Lee Enfield forums. No5 Mk1 Jungle Carbine info and Serial Number Survey! Studio D A1 Audio Download Free here. 303 enfield jungle carbine identification. Jungle carbine serial numbers, nu vot, serial number on 308 jungle carbine. Click on a term to search for related topics.
The British Army had adopted the Rifle, No. 4 Mk. 1 in 1939. It was a simplifiedversion of the Short, Magazine, Lee-Enfield rifle that served the Empire so wellin the first unpleasantness. It was a further simplification and cut down onboth material costs and machine time in its construction, much as the No. 1 Mk.III* had been to the original SMLE of 1907. With its heavier, free-floated,25.3” barrel and fine sights, it provided sterling service in open countryconflicts such as North Africa and parts of Western Europe.
In many ways, parallels can be drawn between the U.S. military’s current wholesaleadoption of the M4 Carbine and the British developing a shorter and lighterindividual weapon for urban or dense tropical combat conditions in WWII. Ratherthan developing an intermediate powered arm (the U.S. M1 Carbine that provedunimpressive in stopping power during WWII and Korea), the British took a moredirect route and simply downsized the standard service rifle.
Two factories were tasked with the production of the No. 5, the Royal Ordnance FactoryFazakerley, Liverpool and Birmingham Small Arms (BSA-Shirley). Fazakerley builtapproximately 170,000 of them, while BSA built about 87,000 in the three yearsof production from March 1944 through December 1947. While the No. 5 wasoriginally meant to be a standard-issue replacement for the No. 4, there weresome issues related to its construction techniques, as well as the increasedrecoil levels.
Rumorhas it that it was designed primarily for airborne use, rather than the SEAsian jungles, and indeed the No. 5 saw much use in Holland during the abortiveBattle of Arnhem, as well as on the Pacific islands. It did, however, servequite well during the “Malayan Emergency” of 1948-1960, a post-war conflictwith Chinese Communist insurgents over oil and rubber industry revenueimportant to Britain’s postwar economic recovery efforts, as Malaysia was partof the Commonwealth at the time.
Lee Enfield Jungle Carbine 303
Originally,the prototype modifications were carried out on the No. 4 receiver. Theseincluded additional machine cuts to the receiver. These can be seen in thedeletion of some of the metal below the rear sight, the bolt guide lug’scamming surface and along the right side below the stock line.
The barrel was reduced by 6.5” to a length of 18.7” and its contour was reduced.Still free-floating, it also had material removed from the exterior, known asthe “Knox form,” above the chamber area under the hand guard. These took theshape of one flat and several other concave milled cuts circumferentially.
The fore stock was shortened and narrowed, while the upper hand guard and band wereremoved. A combination flash hider, bayonet lug and front sight mount withprotective ears was secured to the barrel by press fitting and two cross pins, similarto what we did with the M16.
The butt stock was shortened and more rounded in the wrist area. The wrist is muchmore rounded on top than my No. 4 and it is comfortable to wrap one’s thumbaround in a firing grip. However, this grip is not conducive to rapid boltmanipulation. One’s thumb might normally be placed straight behind the bolthandle to be able to cycle the bolt with a firm cheek weld. Probably, this madethe carbine a bunch more comfortable to be carried at the ready during patrols.Wood furniture was birch (most common), or the occasional walnut, although thelatter had been phased out during early No. 4 production.
A stamped steel and rubber butt was fixed to the stock by two screws at the heeland toe. This rubber pad does not provide recoil abatement, contrary to popularwisdom; it was supposed to be a non-skid surface to better locate the rifleduring shooting.
Specifications:
- Type: Bolt-action carbine
- Caliber: .303 British, Mark VII 174 grain FMJ
- Overall Length: 39.5”
- Barrel Length: 20.5” with flash hider
- Weight: 7 lbs. 1 oz. with empty magazine
- Magazine: Sheet steel detachable box, staggered column, 10 rounds
- Rear Sight: Screw click adjustable ladder type graduated 200-800 yards, with standing battle aperture to 300 yards for coarse or rapid firing.
- Front Sight: Windage adjustable; dovetail, thin-section flat-topped post.
Evidence suggests BSA-Shirley WWII date manufacture is preferable from a collector’sstandpoint, due to half as many produced than ROF Fazakerley. WWII productionnot as nicely manufactured as post-war. BSA Stock band, left butt socket willshow “M47C” markings (indicates BSA), while rear sight and elevation knob andfront sight are stamped “B”. Fazakerley will have “F” stampings in the sameplaces. Post war fore-stocks will have metal end caps installed to seal the endgrain from moisture. Genuine No. 5 carbines have ONLY four digit serialnumbers, with lettered prefixes. Serial numbers tend to be “electro-penciled”onto receiver and butt socket, while rear of bolt handle prefix and serial is stamped.
The 1945 BSA Jungle Carbine examined for this article was a bit rougher in bothappearance and function than my later 1954 No. 4 rifle. While action cycling was still pretty smooth compared to most of its erstwhilecompetition, it lacked that bit of polish compared to other L-E's I’ve handled.The bolt body appearsto be a casting, evidenced by mold marks on the drilled bolt knob, as well assome evident fine “pebbling” of the bolt’s cylindrical body itself.
The flash hider/front sight base is also a casting, also showing exterior moldmarks, as well as some pebbling within the cone. It adds approximately 2” tothe barrel length.
Despite their short stocks, the usual metal butt and lots of drop at comb, a standardEnfield rifle is quite a bit more pleasant to fire than a Springfield ’03,Mauser K98, or Moisin-Nagant 91, at least in my experience. This must be due toboth the lower operating pressure and subsequent nominal velocities of thecartridge itself.
All of the major power service cartridges of the time (.303 Br., .30-06, 8x57JS,7.7x58 Jap, 8mm Lebel, 7.62x54R) were overpowered for the close combatconditions encountered in most circumstances, though this extra power wasjustified for long range capability, as well as penetration.
Barrier penetration, whether it be buildings, light vehicles or foliage, is somethingat which the current varmint-class 5.56X45mm NATO, 5.45X39 Russian and 5.8mmChi-Com rounds do not excel. All lack sufficient momentum and sectional densityto get those jobs done, compared to those older, heavier, higher-recoilingrounds. This is apparently due to modern “firepower” tactics requiringautomatic capabilities. In addition, the short rifle or carbine is bestconfined to forest, jungle, urban, or vehicular settings, as it loseslong-range effectiveness in more open terrain.
A number of theories have been postulated about the “wandering zero” tendency ofsome No. 5 carbines. This might be because of wood stocks swelling (due tohumidity) and causing barrel harmonic issues, or fore stock bedding issues. Themost common theories suggest that the lightened receiver became more “springy”during recoil, or that the light barrel heated unevenly during rapid fire. Itmight even be a reduction of the usual good British quality control in late-war barrels.
The Enfield has never had a tight chamber design and the thinner barrel overheating in protracted use, shortersight radius, greater felt recoil levels and even shorter stock compounded thisissue, as well as intrinsic issues in the design. I am not familiar with thetest protocol that armorers in the U.K. used to determine the wandering zeroclaims, either.
My shooting impressions of the No. 5 are brief. A good friend of mine has ownedone for some 35 years and we both remember it feeling “brutal” as teenagers,though certainly accurate enough to 200 yards or so. The 800 yard sightgraduation makes about as much sense as the 800m one on our 14.5” M4 5.56mmcarbine, save that the .303 has a lot more remaining punch at that ridiculous range.
Shootingthe No. 5 at the local gun club on a typical hot summer day reminded me of someof those memories. After years of shooting elephant rifles, my tolerance forrecoil possibly exceeds many others. While I do not think that the No. 5 kicksas hard as a Soviet M44, it does come back some. Average five shot groups withRemington/UMC 174 grain hardball ran about 2.5 Inches at 100 yards. I suspectthat the usable range should be kept rather short, say 250 yards maximum, on aman or deer sized target.
Suffice to say that the No. 5 was the shortest officially serving rifle in Britishhistory, at about 3-½ years. By the time it debuted, the sun had definitely seton the manually cycled bolt action as a general issue weapon of war. While(debatably) the Enfield may indeed be the best of its breed, its time had past,although some units officially used them as late as 1960.
So, what to do with the No. 5? Is it merely a plinker or wall-hanger? Heavens no!Some of the enjoyment depends upon how tolerant you are of recoil, iron sightsand two-stage triggers. Some aren’t and there are a lot of you out there and alot of other rifles you can buy. However, there are legions of shooters whohave enjoyed firing or have shot game with other 19th Century, 20” barreled carbines firingmedium pressure, rimmed ammunition at moderate velocities. Witness all the Model 336's, Model94's and sundry copies sold to this day. Last time I checked, they still put venison on the table as well as ever.
In the proper hunting environment, just as in the military application, a carbinecan be a handy thing, provided it disposes of enough power. In addition, ausable piece of history is a good thing in my book. Amazingly, No. 5's areapparently still serving to this day in far-flung regions of the world wherethe Union Jack once flew.
Over the past several months, Enfield Rifle Research has received dozens of questions about the spate of 'new' and 'rare' Lee-Enfields that have been showing up lately at gun shows and in pawn shops. Many of these are quite handsome rifles with pretty decent workmanship and are probably worth the $125 to $150 that the major firearms distributors ask for them. For the most part, though, they are not recently discovered “unissued” rifles, nor are they long-lost “prototypes” that have suddenly surfaced. The overwhelming majority of these “finds” are recently-made parts guns or replicas or recent aftermarket conversions of standard No. 1, 2A/2A1, or No. 4 rifles.Navy Arms Company is making and selling a lot of these, and they usually describe them (albeit in the fine print) as 'replicas' or 'constructed of original No. 4 Enfields' or some such. SARCO and SOG (among others) are also marketing these (or similar) rifles for comparable prices, again with fair--or at least technically honest--advertising.
The problem arises when these aftermarket replicas pass through several hands and wind up offered for sale at a gun show or in a pawn shop. Typically, the advertising (such as it was) gets lost, the price gets jacked up, and the seller claims (maybe because he believes it) that the piece really is a long-lost treasure. A lot of people are getting burned by these knock-offs, and an even greater number are just plain confused.
Here’s our take on the various 'bargains' that have been showing up lately.
No. 1 Mk III* (Lithgow - 'New')
Often advertised as “collector grade”or “mint - unfired” or “unissued” andselling for $200 and up.
Watch out for these! Quite a few “new Lithgow” rifles have been built just within the last few years from spare parts bought from the Australian government. The parts are new, and the rifles were never issued--but they aren’t Lithgow factory rifles by any stretch of the imagination! They’re recently-built parts guns.
It is possible (though not likely) that some Lithgow-manufactured rifles with late-1945 (or later) dates were kept in storage and subsequently surplused out in unfired or unissued condition. Such rifles would have 5-digit serial numbers with either an “E” or an “F” serial number prefix, and the serial number would be stamped on the rear of the bolt handle and on the bottom of the fore-end, as well as on the receiver ring. Neither the nose cap nor the bottom of the backsight leaf will carry a different serial number on these rifles. Also, legitimate factory rifles will have 1/4-inch square brass or copper recoil plates installed on the fore-ends where the sear boss bears against the wood. These plates will be attached with small brass wood screws.
If you find a “new” Lithgow with a 1943 or 1944 date, be highly suspicious. This was the height of the war, and virtually all rifles manufactured were issued. If you find the receiver marked with a “JJ CO NY NY” import stamp, assume it’s a parts gun unless you have clear evidence to the contrary. (Many “new Lithgow” parts guns appear to have been assembled on receivers imported by John Jovino & Co.) If you find a 4-digit serial number with no prefix letter and an “A” suffix, this is clear evidence that it is not a Lithgow factory rifle. If you find different serial numbers on different parts, this is clear evidence that it is a parts gun. And if the recoil plates are missing, it is not only a parts gun--it could be dangerous to shoot. There’s a possibility that the fore-end will be damaged with as few as 20 or 30 round fired.
No. 1 'Tanker Carbine'
Overall length 39-40 inches; 20-21 inch barrel, with fore-endshortened and nose cap moved back. Also called “No. 1 Shortened and Lightened” rifle or “No. 6 Tanker Carbine” or “No. 6 Shortened and Lightened” rifle.
These are probably either aftermarket modifications or outright fakes. The Australian government did experiment with a shortened and lightened No. 1 rifle, but only a hundred prototypes were made. These have grooved fore-ends, lightening flutes on the barrel knox forms, and extensive lightening cuts on the receivers. Also, the Lithgow factory prototypes all have aperture backsights mounted on the charger bridge and solid handguards. All bear “XP” serial number prefixes.
Some unofficial experimenting was done by a number of unit armourers during WWII in an attempt to create a shortened and lightened version of the No. 1 rifle, and it is possible that a few of these early experiments have survived. The barrels were shortened, and the nose caps were reset, but most retained the barrel-mounted tangent sights. These are historically interesting, but they are not “official” Lithgow factory prototypes.
The easiest way to tell a recent replica from a WWII-vintage experimental model is to remove the nose cap. If you find freshly-cut wood, you know what you have! Also, many of the recent fakes have a hex-nut rather than a standard oblong nose cap nut securing the rear nose cap screw, and the fore-end stud and stud spring are missing.
No. 2A “Tanker” Carbine
Overall length 39-1/2 inches, with a 20-1/2 inch barrel. Fore-end shortened and nose cap moved back.
Lee Enfield Jungle Carbine Value
There ain’t no such thing! There never was. This is strictly an aftermarket modification. Such a shortened version of the Ishapore 2A/2A1 rifle was never even considered by the Indian government--never mind adopted--or by anyone else, for that matter.
No. 4 “Tanker” Carbine
Overall length 39-1/2 inches, with a 20-1/2 inch barrel. Fore-end shortened and nose cap moved back.
As above, there ain’t no such thing. Strictly an aftermarket modification.
No. 4 Shortened and Lightened
Overall length 39-42 inches; 20-23 inch barrel, withfore-end shortened and nose cap moved back.
Probably an aftermarket modification. The Canadian government did experiment with a shortened and lightened No. 4 rifle, and a few dozen prototypes were made; however, these have one-piece stocks! Also, the barrels and receivers were lightened with extensive milling. All were conversions of Long Branch rifles only.
If you see a two-piece stock or a receiver than doesn’t have any lightening cuts, you have an aftermarket modification or replica. The British version of the shortened and lightened No. 4 rifle is the No. 5 rifle (see below).
No. 4 “Collector Grade”
Savage or Long Branch, often advertised as “new”or “unissued.”
Lee Enfield Jungle Carbine Conversion
Watch out. It is possible that a legitimate unissued No. 4 rifle will turn up, but it’s not likely. Most of these “collector grade” rifles were arsenal reconditioned somewhere along the line--but somewhere other than Canada or Great Britain (who marked their reconditioned rifles “R” or “FTR”). Look for black enamel or flat black paint on the metal parts--this is a tip-off that the work was done in Pakistan or in South Africa or in some other country. Original No. 4 rifles have an oil-blackened finish (or possibly a blued finish on 1950 or later Long Branch rifles). Also, look for non-British or non-Canadian ownership or acceptance marks.
We have reports of a number of unissued Long Branch rifles re-imported into Canada from Belgium by Districorp. The story is that CAL sold a bunch of No. 4 rifles to the Belgian government in the early 1950s, and that they were kept in storage and never issued. These all have 95L serial numbers and 1950 dates and look quite nice. They are probably the real McCoy. (We’ll look into them further and report as soon as we have additional data.)
No. 5 “Jungle Carbine”
Overall length 39-1/2 inches; 20-1/2 inch barrel withflash hider. Rubber buttplate; short fore-end.
An honest No. 5 rifle (or “Jungle Carbine”) has lightening flutes cut in the barrel knox form and extensive milling done to the receiver to lighten it. (Take the handguard off and look for the barrel flutes.) Also, an honest No. 5 will be electro-engraved “No5MKI” on the left side of the receiver and will not have “No. 4” stamped or engraved anywhere on it. In addition, an honest No. 5 will bear the proper manufacturer’s code: “(ROF)F” for Fazakerley or “M47C” for BSA-Shirley. Finally, the barrel band will be only 8 inches in front of the receiver ring--rather than 10-3/4 inches as on a No. 4 rifle.
In the 1950s and 1960s, Golden State Arms Co. of Pasadena, California modified quite a few No. 4 rifles by shortening the barrels, adding flash hiders, and shortening the fore-ends. Some were equipped with Fajen or Bishop sporter stocks, as well. These were called various names, such as “No. 4 Jungle Carbine,” or “Santa Fe Mountain Carbine,” or “Mountain Rifle,” but all have “Golden State Arms” and “Santa Fe” roll-stamped on the barrel. Nice aftermarket conversions, but strictly that.
Currently, Navy Arms is doing the same thing with No. 4 rifles and selling them as “No. 5 Jungle Carbines.” At arm’s length they look genuine, but they have standard No. 4 rifle markings and DO NOT have the lightening flutes on the barrel or the lightening cuts on the receiver. These are strictly fakes--or thinly disguised “replicas.”
No. 6 “Jungle Carbine”
Overall length 39-1/2 inches, with 20-1/2 inch barrel andflash hider; brass buttplate.
The Australian No. 6 rifle was officially adopted, but only a couple of hundred prototypes were ever built. These have grooved fore-ends and handguards, and most have receiver-mounted aperture rear sights. All have “XP” serial number prefixes, and the bayonet lug on the flash hider is squared to accept a P1907-type bayonet rather than rounded to accept a No. 4-type bayonet. The handguard is the same length as the fore-end and will be solid for its full length or have an unusual set of backsight protectors on it--sort of like the rear handguard on an SMLE Mk I rifle.
Replicas and fakes abound. Golden State Arms made replicas in the 1950s and 1960s, but these are all marked “Golden State Arms” and “Santa Fe” on the barrel. In the 1970s, Federal Ordnance Company (Fed Ord) made some No. 6 look-alikes built on WWI-vintage Lithgow actions, but these are stamped “Jungle Rifle” on the left side of the receiver. Navy Arms is currently making look-alikes with no special marking and selling them as “No. 6 Jungle Carbines.” Don’t pay a premium for these!
If you see a barrel-mounted tangent sight, the rifle is a fake. If you don’t see lightening flutes on the barrel knox form and lightening cuts in the receiver, the rifle is a fake. If it has a No. 5 flash hider, it’s a fake. If the barrel band is up within a few inches of the flash hider, it’s a fake. (Or a thinly-disguised “replica,” if you must.)
No. 7 “Jungle Carbine”
Shortened version of 2A/2A1 rifle, with flashhider installed.Like the 2A Tanker Carbine, this is strictly an aftermarket modification. There never was a carbine version of the Ishapore 2A/2A1 rifle, and there never was any such thing as a “No. 7 Jungle Carbine.” The Lee-Enfield No. 7 rifle is a .22 caliber training rifle, similar in appearance to a full-size No. 4 rifle, which was made in both Canada and Great Britain in the late 1940s. They are clearly marked as such.
A Final Word
We believe that Navy Arms and others are missing a bet by not labeling their products for what they are. Aftermarket modifications and replicas have been around since the days of Francis Bannerman, and they are an interesting part of the history of military rifles. Bannerman Krags are definitely collectable, and there is a growing interest in Golden State and Fed Ord Enfields--but mainly because they are readily identifiable for what they are.
The problem with the current crop is not just that the marketing borders on deceptive: ten or twenty years from now nobody will be able to tell an honest Navy Arms look-alike from the one-off handiwork of a basement wood butcher. We believe that the aftermarket modifications and even “replicas” would sell just as well if they were labeled as such, and we have no doubt that doing so would save a lot of grief for collectors--both now and in the years to come.
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